Principles of Unity

[Neo]

I want to direct attention at some ideas which I think could broaden jedi community.

We all know how creating big air castles, read jedi orders, leads to nowhere. Jedi online community is full of over 10 years of examples.

We've really lost nothing because of it, but time.

We know where we as a community are at the moment. Let's look at things which we could have, or what we could do.

1. Reflect on your attitude. We could do a lot better if we'd always act like we were in some sort of university which demands well thought out communication and full respect of everyone you meet. Conflict takes two sides, always.

2. How to expand jedi way for ourselves and make it more available for others?

What do you think is the jedi way, or however else you call it? How would you see passing the path on to others?

Every path starts with ideals and a person taking those ideals as one's own. Jedi way could be said to be a semi-religion. It is well defined. It's not general new age yet another oddity. We seek to bring balance and peace and learn about greater reality(read Force/whatever you call it). It is a well defined way of life. It needs no agreement or signatures.

What but needs agreement is how to apply that path.
There are as many ways to apply the jedi way as there are jedi with different world views, philosophies, experience.

Jedi way is separate from personal application of it.

With such basic principle understood we see that all possibilities are open to us. With clear picture about who we are we can set out to do whatever we desire. With clarity and understanding we and our community will become better. Friction between individual jedi or groups of will either disappear or will not be seen as of any importance. Get up and let's go or stay with your little things.

3. We should openly welcome, support and co operate with people who practice the jedi way but have chosen to shed all Star Wars nomenclature. Ashla Knights has core leadership of people who have over the years become very mature and enlightened. Community would loose a lot if ties between them and the rest of the community would be cut.

It's not the name but the path, the ideals that matter.

Each of us should consider if we want to go the same way as Ashla Knights or keep to word jedi. What are the benefits and downfalls of either way?
Where would either option lead us and whole community to?


Do your best and eventually you will end up with something great.

[Wander]

From browsing your other recent postings on JRC Neo I have to say we do share a lot of ideas. Those three points you make are good.

I think everyone, myself included, could benefit from reflecting upon and being mindful of their attitude and the behavior they exhibit towards others. There are so many pressures to follow the crowd in our actions that sometimes we forget and let go of the reins. Like letting a bit of backbiting slip out to a friend while you're chatting or not being as conscious of the feelings and interests of others as we should be. The fact is that the majority of the people in the community of jedi do not live in a way that could be called monastic, or a life of sacrifice. So those pressures will continue to weigh on their actions. Most don't have an opportunity to distance themselves from the status quo behavior at this time. That makes it difficult but not impossible. I'm sure with a little humility and attention to detail we can all improve our attitudes a little every day.

My views on expanding the jedi path have been turned on their head by my studies in comparative religion. If anything I have found that while the jedi have been around for many thousands of years by many different names... they still exist today independent of the fictions and the forums. They wander the highways living in their cars, riding the country roads on bicycles with tents, looking for a place they can stop and be a useful human being to a human being in need. They are of many different religions, but at their core believe much the same. Forsaking material possessions and creature comforts they live a life of sacrifice and service. Mostly in total obscurity. It's really quite beautiful. I have been coordinating for some time with two other people who, while are of a different faith than I, still find almost total common ground across our spiritual convictions. Together we will obtain a mode of transportation and shelter(most likely a converted bus) and set up a pool of emergency money and set out in several years.

To me the path that is known here as the jedi path is simply just that. A path. A way to live your life. It involves personal sacrifice on behalf of others. The spiritual side of it comes from whichever tradition's teaching that person bases themselves in. I have found that most tradition's teachings are largely based in the same core elements. Most of which, if not all, are completely in line with the jedi teachings found on the community pages.

For me I try to make this path more available to others by being an positive example. Be the change you wish to see in the world as they say. As per my own religious beliefs I may only put forth a good example through work and service to others. If I am questioned as to why I do these things, or what I believe, it would then be proper to explain it without resorting to passionate speech or appeals to their emotions but through knowledge and reason and invite that person to learn about the teachings I live by.

As for your last point I cannot comment on the actions of others who I don't know personally. But when handling myself I prefer to present myself based on my muslim, and buddhist foundation and that I strive to be a "servant of the light". I have found more success in that rather than saying that I follow the jedi path. My actions and the teachings I follow are the same as they always were. This is simply a more relevant and effective description in my opinion.

As for jedi lingo, I think people could take it or leave it based on their own utility. If they find it works for them that's great. That part isn't so big in my opinion. Mainly because there are people out there already walking this path who refer to themselves using the titles of the sources of the wisdom that went into making the jedi and they have gotten along, and get along fine without those words.

Our best is all we can do. :sHa_thumb:

Peace to you Neo.

[RO1234]

Taken from the Wookieepedia article:

"In following the Code, Jedi behavior was rigidly structured to uphold self-discipline, responsibility, and public service. The Jedi conquered emotions and materialism. They honored life, the law, the order itself and the master-student relationship. Jedi rendered aid to support and defend the weak; compassion was "encouraged." Rules of engagement included such notions as understanding the dark and light in all things, learning to see accurately, opening their eyes to what was not evident and exercising caution, even in trivial matters. Above all, Jedi upheld their duty to the Republic and embraced the Force."


1. Uphold self-decipline
2. Responsibility
3. Public service
4. Conquer emotions
5. Conquer materialism
6. Honor life
7. Honor law
8. Honor the order
9. Honor the master student relationship
10. Render aid to support and defend the weak
11. Compassion encouraged (?)
12. Understanding the dark and light in all things
13. See accurately, opening their eyes to what was not evident and exercising caution, even in trivial matters.
14. Upheld their duty to the Republic
15. Embraced the Force

First I think discussing these points as either valid or invalid must be done. Then taking it from there. A few points that seem necessary to address in order to progress would be #8 & #9. the others can be worked on independently however these two appear to be at the root of our ability to progress as a group.

[RO1234]

The tricky part:)

To be honest, the only way I see there being legitimate Masters is if there were a consolidation of Jedi, that would make sense to be within a Jedi training area, who through collective training and discussion (granted worthy Jedi attending) could nominate those few to the rank of master. Then the Jedi masters would form the council which would lead the development of their brother Jedi and lead the order.

Crazy idea I know. But honestly... isn't it the logical answer?

To head off trouble before it starts, PLEASE consider what comments you post. Statements about the difficulties without possible solutions are in no way helpful and will be counterproductive and will clutter form discussion. So PLEASE, if you would refrain from such type posts it would be much appreciated. If you are opposed to the idea, I don't mean to prohibit you from commenting. Just please keep it logical and polite. Thank you.

And Neo, if you feel I'm taking from your original intent of this thread, make it known and I can move it.

Peace,
Ro

[Neo]

Thank you for sharing your insight Wander. Understanding such personal views helps to be aware of perspectives that should not be forgotten when going for the Jedi Order. Clear, strong focus and versatile setup is the key to successfully bringing together people.

Thank you Ro for writing a guideline about staying on topic.

You're right on topic. With your own concerns and ideas and that's what this is about. Were I to say you're offtopic, when you've written what you have, then on topic would be only about appraising and worshipping my personal ideas. All hail Neo! :D

The applicable points from those 15 is not needed by grassroots community. Want to build an order, for example like Ashla Knights. Then such things need to be set.

We could go the way of an Order. Or we could form a informal group that follows the spirit of freedom, discipline, individuality together with all the jedi qualities of diligence, service and practice.

I think the Order will be as efficient or as weak as it's leaders. The free form set up but would be as strong as all members together. Order is about the few keeping the reins and holding the organization focused and coherent. Free form organization fosters each and every one working on each other becoming disciplined and experienced as well as helping everyone else to become strong.

Order would require a few, the leaders to work immensely. It would but never reach the output of joint efforts of multitude of disciplined, experienced and strong members.

Many other variations are possible as well. In the end we can put up anything or we can put up something by strategic understanding and reasoning. Anything driven by enthusiasm and awe won't live long. It has to work and work really well.

As to Masters. I've seen many many years of circus around it:
"I don't recognize you as a master."
"I make myself a forum and grab the title."
"I want to be the Master, :p *satisfied*"
"Can you float a cabbage and crush it in midair with Force Choke. If yes then I call you a Master."

This topic may have become so polluted by past nonsense that it may be hard to get people to talk about it anymore

We can start anew though. Forget the past, it is gone.

Ranks like Knight, Master are by no way an indication of super Force powers. They are organizational titles. If Knights and Masters are wise and experienced then they are a boon to the organization. They can be dumb and useless :sFi_slapfight: That would kill the Order of course.

No one likes to join a sinking ship. Some of us do wish to be free to roam the world and offer as much help and where they can. If they'd have to do the same thing for some Order, it might turn into a chore and they'd loose their interest. Some people want commitment and honor the hard work done for greater cause. Some are ready for anything as long as it is great and done together.

If someone feels the urge to try building an order for jedi, then they can't loose anything. Either they create something awesome or they gain experience on such matters. All is well and positive if you dare to admit it as such.

It's the journey that matters not the temporary effects.

[Wander]

Were you referring to me in your statements regarding moderating comments? If you were I would appreciate a bit more elaboration with exact points you would see as counterproductive. Thank you. :)

Consolidation will happen when it happens(if it will at all). All we can do is continue to discuss and do our best to embody those values. The next logical step to me would be an increasing level of activity offline, which is being greatly aided by JRC and it's leaders/organizers. We must first meet and get to know each other in person. Get to know our human resources. Then we should begin planning larger scale application of our service. Setting up soup kitchens, food/clothing drives, going to help with aid organizations, setting up our own aid organizations. This is all a lot of work and definitely a lot of time but after we have something to consolidate and there is a strong set of leaders ready to stand up and the rest accept them, then maybe consolidation will happen. But honestly, I've discussed this many times... It really is a can of worms! haha :)

Peace to you both.

[Neo]

No, that was Ro's suggestion for one "principle of unity". I simply commented on it.

All I said about your ideas are the few first sentences. Just good stuff what's more there to say.

[Wander]

Ahh yes I was referring to Ro's statements. Either way I meant to speak about these things without being discouraging or elitist. I believe anyone can do this, and I am certainly not a source of absolute truth by any means.

Peace to you Neo. :)

[Neo]

It's obvious he wanted to remind everyone before replying. He wasn't commenting you, Wander.

Well... no indeed you're not the all knowing, all mighty. :sHa_lol:

But consider that there are simple and universal concepts, truths. If you avoid them and go against them then you are inefficient or get in trouble. If you are in tune with them then you are more efficient and everything is simple and clear.

Facts, details matter little. Underlying focus, intent and application is what truly matters. Do the right things and you can not fail even if you go against the facts. It's your journey that matters, not the details.

[Neo]

I guess I could say I have rediscovered Force Academy for myself.

Somehow it never attracted me.

Looking at it now I still see it unchanged.

Nonetheless there is some good stuff there. I consider this page to be a good guideline for all jedi:
http://www.forceacademy.co.uk/s-lib.html

Light jedi seem to be only different in their organizational format.
http://www.forceacademy.co.uk/l-lib.html

Dark jedi chapter in my opinion makes no sense as individual path designation
http://www.forceacademy.co.uk/d-lib.html

Carlos Castaneda books could as well be recommended for anyone mastering what could be called real world Force and real world Force skills.
The books are totally neutral and have nothing to do with darkness. One character in it who went on path of hurting others, found a real world darkside path. An old woman comparable to Star Wars sith but not as mindless. She was just a passing presence, a test for Castaneda to survive or fall. So how's that a book for dark jedi? I suppose it is good that dark jedi walk the left hand path rather than going on more selfish path like that true sithlike old witch in one Castaneda book. That'd be really scary. It would start real world conflict and race to arms between different jedi sects in future.

Hmm right, forget I said anything. Let's guide the darksiders to see the benefits of improving themselves rather than destroying themselves with destructive forces found in universe. Thus they'll stay docile and peaceful...

Possibilities are chilling.

[Neo]

Another view of mine describing a proper foundation for unified jedi community, by turning the focus within ourselves first.

AstaSophi:

There's been a lot of beating-on the "Jedi" - who are called certain names outright by the Jediists because they do adhere more strongly to the Jedi of Star Wars - and I am also hearing you, Neo, claim that Jedi do not put the Force front of center - and that a misunderstanding that could be cleared-up possibly?

No. I don't mean this at all. I try to explain.

Asta, the true way is not about what a group of people say. You need actual sages and masters of all practice for that equation to ever be true. And even then they won't ever know everything, so they are bound to be open for additional views and methods, always, forever. Because we're dealing with infinite potential here and not something you can lock up in cupboard and say "I got the true and total understanding of jedi way".

So we're only left with ourselves. What do you know, where you are now? Decide to be a jedi as you are and move on. It's just that. Failures and successes come and go, but you and your dedication to jedi way stays. Some may say that you fail to be enough peaceful. It is an attitude of A FLAMING TROLL to claim you are not a jedi then. You failed, simple as that. It's a lesson. Who is there to say that you are not trying to follow the way of the jedi? Only you know it, only you can make the decision of either yes or no. Stop feeding the trolls, the people who play social games with others, whether they realize it or not. Just ignore them and their little games. Isn't it crazy that people mystify the Star Wars to such an extent that they consider jedi to be most perfect. The jedi in fiction were sometimes totally dumb or as criminal as sith. It's easy to play social games and to troll with others in regards of perfection and "I know the only true way". They are hypocrites and trolls.

If someone's path is about using Star Wars mythos more fully, then where is the harm? That's exactly what they should be doing if it is the right thing for them. Were they to jump on others with their "only my way is correct" only then would it be wrong.

It is rather simple. Look within, cultivate yourself. Be that jedi that you want to be. Experience and realizations will come. Years later you change. There is no doubt in that. And with you growth, so do your opinions and views change.

This is how life is. Such is the way of a living path, instead of staying with the anachronism. Christians use their bible to play mental and social games among themselves. Jedi are no different in being subject to such weaknesses.

People focus too much outwards, they don't build their inner jediness. Use of superficial methods is like walking with crutches. So they form a community, seeking to brainwash ;D everyone into using their preferred approach of "one and only way". Instead we'd be better off stopping all that. Go away from that community, seek inner understanding and come back. This way jedi would be about sharing experiences, helpful philosophical concepts and physical training methods. There would not be masters and students in such community. We'd all be our own masters and students of Force, that means everyone and everything around us.

[Silmerion Skywalker]

I totally agree that each Jedi should find his/her "Jediness" inside but it is essential to share, and for me personally I think a structured Community is the best way to do it so that the experience of each member can help the others, but just like we have the belts in Martial Arts, we have the Ranks (at least in some Order). It is great to see so many different points of view in our Community, what we should stop, is trying to change the others' opinion. Some feel good with Ranks, OK- some feel better without Ranks, OK...I think there is room for everything and everyone. Personally my different "passages" of Ranks from Youngling to Master helped me very much in my inner growth, and also in my offline professional life. Other persons will need other things to help them grow, it's OK, it is what makes each of us unique.
The same goes for the names of our groups, some define themselves Jediists, others dropped the name Jedi, others called themselves Jedi Realists...I think the key is accepting to work with people who don't think like us, I believe this is the way toward peace.