How would you handle it ?

[Justaguy]

The Jedi Guardian idea has been debated and kicked around for quite a while. There seems to be differing opinions about what actions would be the actions of a guardian, and what actions would simply be the actions of a vigilante. Martial arts ? No martial arts ? Weapons ?
I'll be starting school at a legal " Institution " on Tuesday. Mindas knows where I'm going but, I'll leave it at "Institution". Part of the testing and interview process for entrance into this institution involved answering situational questions.
So, I'd like to put forth one of the questions I was asked.

You're driving down the road. You see an elderly woman being assaulted. Her attacker spots you and runs as you get out of your car. You can catch him if you try. You ARE armed. What do you do ?

I'll wait a week, then give the " correct " answer as deemed by the state.

[Setanaoko]

Being law enforcement myself (Military Police, US Army) I'd have to say the following:

Take mental note as much as you can of the individual that ran off, attend to the elderly woman and call the proper authorities.

The woman was assaulted, you can't ignore that. We don't know how damaged she is from the incident. She could be in shock, have something broken, I just don't know yet. She is my top priority, not the assailant. Besides, while I'm taking mental note of his features as I run up to her, if she comes out alive, she may have a better description.

The other thing is, you told me I was alone. If I had someone else capable of making the assessment on her, I'd run after him and take him to the ground (though most likely I'm not with a medic, so I'll send the other guy after him).

[Moonshadow]

I'd have to say pretty much ditto on what Swtankaoka said. Take in as much identifying information about the assailant as possible, then assess and assist the woman to determine her level of injury while calling the authorities if you have a cell phone available. First priority is helping the injured party.

--Moonshadow

[Andy]

You can catch him if you try. You ARE armed. What do you do ?



Armed with what?

[Justaguy]

Andy, A firearm and a baton

Set...You're not allowed to answer first anymore.....lol

[Charles]

I can't see how this would be a tough question. Your first priority is to secure the safety of the woman. Beyond that you need to take in as much as you can detail wise and get the authorities on the phone. If you are the authorities and haven't called for some kind of backup you need to do so at this point also. Throughout the entire situation you must be careful and be aware though. There is the possibility that the elderly woman will now assault you in self defense if she's in some kind of state of shock and if she's armed that could make things worse. So with that you approach with as much caution as you can while assisting her.

[Justaguy]

I can't see how this would be a tough question.

Funny you should say that. It was disclosed after the interviews were over that one of the candidates responded that; "He would chase down the suspect and f-ing shoot him. " Needless to say. He did not make it. So, the correct temperment and thought process is not a given.

[Setanaoko]

lol, sorry for ruining it Justaguy.

Though, I have to make a correction on the one where I have a partner. It occured to me (as I ate breakfast this morning-lol, is it sad I think about Jedi boards and things I posted when I'm not online??? ;) ), I'm suppose to be acting as a civilian in this case. I oftentimes place myself in the position as though I'm acting as law enforcement-so I give the law enforcement answer.

If I have a partner with me, I would have them attend to the elderly woman-as long as I deemed them capable of doing so. I would chase down the individual myself. Why?

Citizen's Arrest laws. I know my partner won't know them-let alone the fact that you are not even allowed to touch the assailant as a civilian, unless they are still committing the crime (no, sorry, fleeing the scene is not a reasonable enough crime to put hands on!). The goal of a citizen's arrest is to detain the individual verbally, not physically. Since I'm the one that knows this, and I know the other guy most likely does not, I don't have enough time to explain it to them.

[Mindas Arran]

Who says I get out of my car? Can't I just run the guy over? :p

[Justaguy]

Who says I get out of my car? Can't I just run the guy over? :p

Tempting as it may be. No, you can not run them over....lol
Besides, technically they are fleeing the scene, and it becomes questionable if they are still considered a "threat". It's not cut and dry. It does move into a gray area.

[Andy]

If the fellow did not run off, you would be within your rights to step in to protect the old woman. Probably not with the gun though. If armed with a baton or some other "less than lethal" instrument, i would use that.

Since he did run and there was no threat of impending violent damage to any party, You must see to the old woman. A good rule to follow would be to minimize harm. If it means stepping in to physically restrain an assailant that is what it would take. Ignoring an injured person could result in further harm, so if it means giving first response aid to an injured victim, a jedi should be prepared to do so.

[Inari]

Well, living in another country as I do I would almost certainly not be armed, especially with a gun. I would be doing as Seto said, helping the lady as much as possible and calling authorities. Possibly the calling would come first depending on the ladies physical state.

[Charles]

Hehe, Mindas would just swear he thought they were getting a running start for a drop kick and wanted to stop them *had to make the joke*

[Mindas Arran]

Hey, that's a good justification there.... :D

[Coragus Corvus]

You're all focusing on the assailant. Run over to the woman, calling 911 on your cell phone. Check on her health. If the assailant returns, defend yourself and the woman. Otherwise, wait with her and give the authorities as much information as you can to help them deal with the situation.

[Setanaoko]

Coragus, where do you see that we are all focusing on the assailant? So far, the only person that said they would-was me-and that is ONLY IF I AM WITH A QUALIFIED PARTNER!

[Wolfedi]

One of the first things to do is get out your best weapon, the cell phone, try to take his picture. This puts him at the scene and give the cops a visual. Take his pic or video as you approach the lady to ask her if she needs help. You do not want to run up on her and startle her. She may turn on you. But you should not let call her family until the authorities arive and she has calmed down. Render any aid she requests and give a full report as neccisary.

[Setanaoko]

Not to call the family until officials arrive....that's interesting...I wouldn't have thought of that even coming up. But you are right-the family doesn't need to find out anything from you. The police and medical staff need as little chaos as possible (family would inflict such) when trying to render aide. The emergency services should be left to call the family.

Why? Because emergency services are actually trained to help keep the family members as calm as possible. You are in a stressful situation depending, and it might not be a good idea that the family know who you are in the event the individual dies.

[Master_Winward]

Greetin's everyone, after readin everyone's replies I decided ta offer my point o view on the post, while all the POV's raised are good valid points, I would have ta say that this is a question that can't be honestly answered, as such in today's world o "shoot first ask questions later", in Setanaoko's post he used the scene o the elderly lady being assaulted, in that an similuar cases, the safety o the elderly lady is the top priority, but whether or not the use o physical force or use o a weapon is justified is all a matter o the situation encountered, an therefore would be left ta judgement o the person in that situation

[Trevus-Nehemia]

Yes Helping the lady would be frist then atfer if u can still see the guy wouldnt it be smart to go atfer him to try to stop him and try to hold him till the cops get there

[Setanaoko]

lol, why do people keep thinking I'm a guy??? ;)

Trevus, the answer is no. Because we don't know what other factors could come up. This lady might not have hit a state of shock yet. It might take her a few minutes to process what has just happened to her, and that is dangerous.

I'm taking a class right now on Critical Incident Peer Support (today's the last day). And the more I learn about how people process these situations they find themselves in, the more I realize just how much a victim needs the support until they've gotten over the intial phases. Beyond that, they need people that are more qualified to deal with the problems. The point is, you have to get through something RIGHT NOW so you can get help later. That is where we come in-as those peer supporters right on scene.

[Justaguy]

Yes, Set you are correct. As was established in the first response. The victim is the priority. Not getting the bad guy. The bad guy may get away. It happens. Unfortunately TV gives a very unrealistic approach to how these situations should be handled.

[Setanaoko]

Hey, I had to come back to this thread-reposted it at FA (got a guy who came in claiming he gives good advice on legal stuff, Hannigan, gotta love that guy >.>).

Anyways, something else occurred to me that I thought I should post here.

As soon as the guy runs off, he isn't a threat (until he attacks his next victim >.>). To go after him would become an assault charge in itself- AGAINST YOU. I know I made mention of the Citizen's Arrest law issue, but I didn't really clarify that this would become a problem for you as well. So even if you are meaning well in trying to capture the guy, it can get turned against you in the court of law.

[Rivan Elan]

Setanaoko and others have covered this quite well. I know state laws can vary somewhat in wording but as soon as the assailant ran the option of the citizen to use deadly force is completely gone. Far from a "shoot first ask questions later" environment you can only shoot (as a citizen) if you are protecting your life or the life of another.

If you have official capacity then "fleeing felon" laws may come into play but if there is only one of you the victim must be the priority. Wolfedi's idea about the cell phone camera is excellent. I so rarely use my camera I wouldn't have even thought of that.

Rivan Elan, Jedi

[Justaguy]

Set, you gave me a nice segue into my next question, and you are NOT allowed to answer first.:tongue21:

You're in a bar, a guy decides you're the one he's going to start with. After a few minutes of "accidentally" bumping into you, he decides to take a swing. You move out of the way. He takes another swing. This time you punch him in the stomach, he staggers back holding his stomach, but doesn't go down.
Can you give a follow up shot to ensure that the threat is neutralized ?

[Setanaoko]

awww...drats :P

[Scratbuster]

no but stand guard, the bouncers should chuck you both out any time now, then the guy can either decide to finish it in the street or get lost.

got to admit though i wouldnt have punched him in the stomache, if there was an opening to poke him in the throat,no one wants to fight after that and you can do the casual turn to bar my work is done while the bouncers sort him out. punches are too aggressive for bars youll be out in seconds.

[Justaguy]

Actually Scrat, I was going somewhere else with it. I wasn't really focusing on the technique being used. I was pushing in a different direction.

[Rivan Elan]

Once you punched the guy and you separated that was the end of the fight where he attacked you. For you to strike again would mean that YOU were the aggressor and started a 2nd fight.

Now if you know HopKiDo you could have caught his arm and taken him down while still holding the arm provide a powerful kick under the arm in the shoulder region and THEN let go. He probably would get his dislocated shoulder fixed before he came back to start another altercation.

You also missed one of the best things to do for yourself which is stand back with you hands open and palm towards your assailant and say in a loud voice "Hey man, I don't want any trouble." It plays well with the judge and the audience (who may be giving statements to the police about you.) With your hands up in this position you are also in a guard position for when the fool comes in the second time. However it does look to others as if you were just standing there trying to avoid a fight. Standing there with your hands in fists in a guard position, however, shouts to the world you are ready to fight and some jurisdictions may even take that as provocative. The open hand, palms toward enemy avoids these pitfalls.

Rivan Elan, Jedi

Rivan Elan, Jedi

[Charles]

I have a question. How would your responses differ without local and federal laws in effect?

[Setanaoko]

Okay, since Charles has taken the legal aspect out of it :D I can answer!!! heeheeheeheehee

Anyways, I feel that there should be a degree of honor in such a fight. I don't believe in over doing something. If I have disabled the guy, I don't need to disable him further. I would save my strength and hope that he doesn't want to come back for more. I would HOPE he had decided the problem simply wasn't worth it. But I would be prepared for another attack if it came.

[Scratbuster]

lol rivan my stand guard IS hands open! Much like a wrestling stance, i find it very effective for blocking despite knowing nothing about wrestling lol another good one is folding one hand and putting your other on your chin in an uncomfortable situation, you look nervous but you can drop into an effective backstance SO easily.

and apologies justaguy, my response was the first sentance, the next bit was just me changing it about lol ^^